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▲US Wholesale Inflation Rises by Most in 3 Yearsbloomberg.com
242 points by master_crab 4 hours ago | 265 comments
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BartjeD 3 hours ago [-]
And this is after they massaged the numbers, to avoid getting fired?
mhh__ 3 hours ago [-]
Now we only get to hear if inflation is "Aladeen" or "Aladeen"
2 hours ago [-]
ferguess_k 3 hours ago [-]
I think it's more like "No Sir we won't be able to lower the rate right now, look at this number" moment.
diego_moita 2 hours ago [-]
In the end, it won't matter.

Only economists, policy makers, investors and people blabbing on the internet do care about stats.

Ordinary people just look at price tags; that's all they need.

tomrod 42 minutes ago [-]
I fall into all four categories, which identity am I allowed to require that we not kill our economy with inflation?
outside1234 2 hours ago [-]
The challenge with that idea is that investors and business people depend on these numbers being solid for investment decisions like "building a new factory" or "investing in GPUs."

Without solid numbers I wouldn't be surprised to see a shift to "assuming the worst case" and much more conservative and lower investment.

1 hours ago [-]
bobbylarrybobby 2 hours ago [-]
It's nice to have agreed-upon, citable facts though, even if only so that voters know who's full of crap during a debate. When the next R candidate says that Trump handled inflation beautifully, it's important to be able to point to an authoritative source that shows that that claim is BS.
dpkirchner 2 hours ago [-]
The majority of R voters don't care about authoritative sources. In fact, authority when it comes to information is a negative in their view, based on all available evidence (ie elections over the past few decades). We're well past the point that debates matter.
AnimalMuppet 21 minutes ago [-]
Debates may not matter to R voters. There are enough independent voters to matter, though.
diego_moita 2 hours ago [-]
Yes, it *would be* nice to have well-informed voters and intelligent and well-argued discussions.

But we'll never live in a place like that. We're stuck in the Facebook/Twitter/WhatsApp world.

Democracy is a circus managed by the monkey cage.

pm90 3 hours ago [-]
I don't think any existing numbers were officially changed, just that the head of BLS was fired.
outside1234 3 hours ago [-]
Yes, for THAT head of the BLS. It is super clear to the next head of the BLS that they deliver the number the president likes or they will be fired.

So, just like in Venezuela, that number will be delivered.

JKCalhoun 2 hours ago [-]
Picturing a future political cartoon of hobo-looking guys sitting around a winter fire burning in an old oil drum — one guy is holding up a newspaper (wut?) and saying to the rest, "Hey guys, it's fine because it says here that the employment numbers reported are the best ever!"
samfriedman 1 hours ago [-]
You mean like this one?

http://emilysquotes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/EmilysQuo...

JKCalhoun 32 minutes ago [-]
Timeless, ha ha.
whimsicalism 2 hours ago [-]
wanna bet? i will take a bet that inflation will not return to normal (ie. sub 2.1) in the next report
Supermancho 1 hours ago [-]
Indeed, a gentleman's bet.
outside1234 2 hours ago [-]
Sure it will. BLS guy will publish that number regardless.

That said, I also think there is a good chance of that because we will be in a recession by then from the tariffs.

hiddencost 3 hours ago [-]
They fired the head of the BLS because they didn't like the numbers. Explicitly. You kinda have to conclude they're going to cook the books. Like they're doing everywhere else.
jcranmer 3 hours ago [-]
Apparently, they've decided to go with "just not report the numbers."

(Source: https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/trumps-bls-pick-could-p...).

neilv 32 minutes ago [-]
I still like the quote, "Reality has a well-known liberal bias."
temp_praneshp 2 hours ago [-]
That interview was unfortunately timed (taped before nomination, broadcast afterward). My takeaway was that they are not trying "just not report the numbers" _yet_.
sjsdaiuasgdia 2 hours ago [-]
Do you think his position has changed since that interview?
BobaFloutist 1 hours ago [-]
I think his position changes between breakfast and lunch.
Havoc 3 hours ago [-]
Are there inflation indicators that aren’t government controlled? Don’t think anything coming out of trump influenced bodies is worth the paper it’s on anymore
tim333 17 minutes ago [-]
I asked perplexity and there are a few independent calculations (ShadowStats, Truflation, Billion Prices) that put the rate at about 10%

https://www.perplexity.ai/search/what-is-the-us-inflation-ra...

duxup 1 hours ago [-]
Nothing as complete or reliable (historically speaking) as the government numbers. Truth is they're just the best at doing it, or were.
abtinf 2 hours ago [-]
Gold.

The purchasing power of Gold has been remarkably consistent over the long term.

That is, if you convert the gold to dollars, how many eggs could you buy?

To learn more, read up on the work of Keith Weiner of Monetary Metals, or listen to the early episodes of his podcast “The Gold Exchange”.

Workaccount2 1 hours ago [-]
The problem with gold is that it's price fluctuates just like any other commodity. The practical uses of gold accounts for only ~8% of gold mined, while half is for vanity (jewelry, a luxury product) and the rest for speculation and reserves. Similar to fiat, most of the value in gold is in people believing it has value.
Nicook 3 hours ago [-]
There are plenty of indicators, not like its an exact science. Can trust the government one to be always under-reported, the incentive is obvious. I'm a fan of gold prices for longer periods of time.
elzbardico 3 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
epistasis 3 hours ago [-]
Honesty would require admitting that the parties are different. They are not the same, they have different values, and we can see that by who gains and loses power in the party. Which actions are unacceptable, and which actions are rewarded.

The difference is stark!

elzbardico 1 hours ago [-]
"We have no political system at all, we have a sort of corporate party with two wings, both financed by the national security state..." -Gore Vidal

All the other stuff, all the heady discourses, all the piety about the downtrodden, be then the minorities from one side, or the poor rural white man from the other, it is just a fucking smoking mirror, just tools to have loyal soldiers to their cause.

elzbardico 3 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
lentil_soup 2 hours ago [-]
> EDIT: The democrat brigade is busy downvoting me to deny reality. Poor children!

Per the guidelines (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html)

Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents, and the like

Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.

jasonlotito 2 hours ago [-]
HN Guidelines

Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.

Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents, and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data.

Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.

master_crab 4 hours ago [-]
https://archive.is/JmMFk
master_crab 43 minutes ago [-]
Updated version of the story:

https://archive.is/xzohV

yalogin 3 hours ago [-]
Oh no someone is getting fired again. This poor soul forgot that telling the truth is forbidden
swarnie 1 hours ago [-]
Maybe these are the numbers after they were fudged to save a job?
yalogin 1 hours ago [-]
With a d———- there is no nuance. You don’t get credit for fudging them and making them less bad, you save your job by releasing a positive number, the more positive the better. Truth be damned
throw0101a 3 hours ago [-]
The surge in services costs seems to be a bit of a surprise (?):

> Services inflation provided much of the push higher, moving 1.1% higher in July for the largest gain also since March 2022. Trade services margins rose 2%, coming amid ongoing developments in President Donald Trump’s tariff implementations.

> In addition, 30% of the increase in services came from a 3.8% increase in machinery and equipment wholesaling. Also, portfolio management fees surged 5.8% and airline passenger services prices rose 1%.

* https://www.cnbc.com/2025/08/14/ppi-inflation-report-july-20...

> The government on Tuesday reported a mild increase in consumer prices in July, though rising costs for services like dental care and airline tickets caused a measure of underlying inflation to post its largest gain in six months.

> While financial markets have priced in an interest rate cut from the Federal Reserve next month, rising services inflation and the expectation tariffs could still significantly boost goods prices left some economists doubtful of a resumption in policy easing in the absence of labor market deterioration.

* https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-producer-prices-accelera...

When it comes to (Fed) policy, the other thing they look at besides inflation/PCE is employment, which appears to be softening (see recent revisions which caused recent Trump-BLS turmoil).

The US risk for stagflation seems to be growing:

* https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/stagflation.asp

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stagflation

* https://paulkrugman.substack.com/p/its-beginning-to-smell-a-... (check out the music video link at the end)

tim333 12 minutes ago [-]
The current policies seem almost designed for that. Choke real growth with unpredictable tariffs and print lots of money.
neuroelectron 2 hours ago [-]
Whatever the problem is, it's everything but unicorn funding. We can be sure of that on this forum.
duxup 1 hours ago [-]
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the comments, but I find the comments here to be fairly disconnected from the rah rah VC world. Plenty of criticism about those systems around here, and perhaps more pointed and accurate than other places.

The domain name here isn't really driving the comments or content that I can tell.

Buttons840 2 hours ago [-]
When I was about 20 I started listening to Sean Hannity, and while I no longer agree with anything he says, I do appreciate the glimpse I got into his way of thinking. I mention this because...

I can't tell you how many times I've heard the idea that success in free market capitalism comes from offering goods and services to customers with the right balance between quality and price, and that good quality and price is assured because of competition in the market.

But now I see that the true path to success is to first gain favor from those who already have wealth and power, and then use their wealth and power to reduce or eliminate competition.

whimsicalism 2 hours ago [-]
If you can see why the former narrative is inherently appealing to the rich, you should also be able to see why

> But now I see that the true path to success is to first gain favor from those who already have wealth and power, and then use their wealth and power to reduce or eliminate competition.

is attractive to the disaffected (as Nietzsche wrote on). narratives that say the whole thing is rigged are going to be appealing because they offer a non-intrinsic explanation for underperformance.

tomrod 39 minutes ago [-]
The government is the one entity with a monopoly on violence. Concerns of regulatory capture, pork, and rent-seeking stem from this one fact.

Yes, you can certainly get wealthy by being corrupt in legal ways.

jjice 2 hours ago [-]
I see what you mean, but I believe that's more so directed towards the massive scale businesses. Companies that get measured in billions and not millions.

At a smaller scale (the majority of business, but maybe not the majority of revenue), that existing wealth and power is often much smaller and eliminating competition is much less feasible.

Like a local coffee shop, for example. Or a small industry specific software company.

Maybe they matter less in the grand scheme, but they're still a big part of things.

But I do agree with the idea that VC subsidized services to then grip the market and wring them later seem counter productive to a "free market".

isbwkisbakadqv 3 hours ago [-]
2.8% doesn’t seem that crazy to me? Don’t we target like 2-2.5?
estearum 3 hours ago [-]
The Fed targets 2% at PCE (consumer) whereas this is PPI (wholesale/producer). Not always 1 to 1 but in general you expect PPI to be a leading indicator for what's coming for PCE. Part of the attention is for sure people being vigilant to see the earliest effects of the tariffs and... here they are pretty unambiguously.

The more significant concern it seems to me is the rate of increase. Nearly a full percentage point in a month seems like a lot, but I'm no expert.

infecto 3 hours ago [-]
I think you mostly nailed it. I suspected this was going to happen to with this recent filing season having most companies recognize tariffs and already state they are mostly getting passed on.
AnimalMuppet 15 minutes ago [-]
The question is, is that full percentage point in a month a trend, or is it a fluctuation? You can't tell much by one month in isolation, or even one month compared to the previous month.

It's concerning. It's hard to say much more than that yet.

aaronax 3 hours ago [-]
That is the rise from one year ago in the "less-volatile PPI metric that excludes food, energy and trade services". This month was a 0.6% rise. So some people might think about how more months of 0.6% rise would cause the yearly one to increase gradually, up to 7.2% eventually if there are 12x 0.6% months. That would be pretty high.

And then headline figure PPI was even higher at 0.9% for the month, 3.3% year.

hvb2 3 hours ago [-]
0.6% of monthly inflation wouldn't be 7.2% you can't multiply like that.

So the real number would be 1.006^12=7.44%

And over 7% inflation is a bit more than 'pretty high' that's getting really scary if there's no clear outside reason for it

dalyons 3 hours ago [-]
Which of course there is a clear outside reason for it.
3 hours ago [-]
unreal37 3 hours ago [-]
A 0.9% month-over-month increase is significant.
datadrivenangel 3 hours ago [-]
0.9% monthly annualizes to 11.3%
jfengel 3 hours ago [-]
In November 2024, inflation was at 2.7%. Inflation for the whole year was 2.9%.

The public was so incensed that they threw out the government.

Tesl 2 hours ago [-]
We all know Trump voters didn't give two shits about the price of eggs. That's not why they vote for him.
jfengel 19 minutes ago [-]
I'm less concerned with Trump voters (more or less the same people keep voting for him), and more with why ~10 million people didn't vote for his opponent (who had voted for her predecessor).

I don't believe it had anything to do with the price of eggs, either. That was presented as the primary reason, and it's so clearly wrong that it makes me suspicious.

AtlasBarfed 8 minutes ago [-]
They are voting for chaos, because the establishment in the Republican and Democratic parties simply do not care about the everyday people.

As an environmentalist, I essentially have no party, and so while I hate Donald Trump, I understand exactly why he was voted into office.

SV_BubbleTime 2 hours ago [-]
If eggs were about inflation, why did the price drop back down?
trenchpilgrim 2 hours ago [-]
Egg production is seasonal, there's way more supply during summer.
righthand 1 hours ago [-]
Eggs are still up 200% per dozen near me.
throw-qqqqq 3 hours ago [-]
It’s the change/rise that is high, not the value itself.

> The producer price index increased 0.9% from a month earlier, the largest advance since consumer inflation peaked in June 2022, according to a Bureau of Labor Statistics report out Thursday

xnx 3 hours ago [-]
That is 40% over the target.
throw0101a 3 hours ago [-]
2% "over the long run":

* https://www.federalreserve.gov/economy-at-a-glance-inflation...

* https://www.richmondfed.org/publications/research/econ_focus...

nimbius 3 hours ago [-]
According to the Federal Reserve, for many years, inflation in the United States has run below the 2 percent goal. higher prices for essential items, such as food, gasoline, and shelter, add to the burdens faced by many families, especially those struggling with lost jobs and incomes. At the same time, inflation that is too low can weaken the economy. When inflation runs well below its desired level, households and businesses will come to expect this over time, pushing expectations for inflation in the future below the Federal Reserve’s longer-run inflation goal. This can pull actual inflation even lower, resulting in a cycle of ever-lower inflation and inflation expectations.

The fed argues that, If inflation expectations fall, interest rates would decline too. In turn, there would be less room to cut interest rates to boost employment during an economic downturn.

this economics explanation feels like gaslighting every time i hear the fed mention it. the reserve literally pushed negative rates and quantitative easing for so long that people came to expect prosperity as a feature of the economic framework of the nation, and now that we have rampant inflation that cannot be controlled by normal means (prime rate) the fed somehow wants us all to understand its our fault for enjoying affordable burger meat.

kevin_thibedeau 3 hours ago [-]
Gasoline prices are not higher. Above $4 was commonplace across the country 20 years ago. Now that only exists in high tax states and large metros. Gas is cheap in the US.
terminalshort 3 hours ago [-]
It's our fault for voting in people that can't manage a budget.
ninetyninenine 3 hours ago [-]
Eh don’t fully blame the fed. Ultimately it’s a constellation of external forces that drives the fed to lower the rates for so long.

Part of those external forces involves consumers in a major way.

freddie_mercury 3 hours ago [-]
The target is 2%, not 2-2.5.

Being off by 40% is cause for alarm in almost any circumstance.

micromacrofoot 2 hours ago [-]
that 0.8% difference is probably in the area of 100 billion dollars — nearly $300 per American in a single month!
IAmGraydon 2 hours ago [-]
I mean no offense, but it's a bit surprising that someone on HN would not understand what's wrong with this statement. It takes a very basic understanding of math to know why the YoY says very little about rapidly changing inflation metrics. MoM is what you need to pay attention to.
almog 2 hours ago [-]
You can read the actual BLS PPI release here: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/ppi.pdf

Another thing to watch for is the BLS import prices which show prices excluding tariffs. If these remain flat for July as they did for June, it would be another data point suggesting tariffs induced inflation.

jaybrendansmith 3 hours ago [-]
This increase is insane, and 100% due to Trump's illegal tariffs. YOY this will be 10% inflation. If you think the 4.4% increase due to the Covid supply shock was interesting, just wait. FAFO.
tombert 2 hours ago [-]
It still baffles me that he has convinced so many of his followers that he's going to lower grocery prices by raising prices. It almost doesn't even make grammatical sense, let alone any practical sense.

Before someone decides to try and explaining to me that tariffs will bring back work to the US and help our economy, I just need to say that is orthogonal to the point of inflation. It's possible that the tariffs will be a net good. I don't think they will but at least that's something that's on the table, but they will absolutely not lead to lower prices. If it were cheaper to manufacture goods in the US then we'd already be manufacturing goods in the US.

avgDev 1 hours ago [-]
Tariffs need to be higher to bring back manufacturing back to the US.

Most companies are looking for countries other than China with no tariffs and bringing it back to US is not even a consideration.

Plus, by the time you can start manufacturing in the US it would take at least 1-3 years to get a factory ready. Then, you have a new president and these might go away. Too much risk to make rash decisions on moving manufacturing.

IAmGraydon 2 hours ago [-]
You're forgetting that a lot of tariffs didn't kick in until August 1, and aren't included in this. So it's likely that we'll be seeing inflation far higher in the future. I'm guessing we're going to over 20% YoY, and even that may be a lowball.
1 hours ago [-]
monkeyelite 2 hours ago [-]
> 100% due to Trump's illegal tariffs

This is false on its face. Inflation has been a problem for years.

enraged_camel 41 minutes ago [-]
Inflation was on its way down in 2024. It has now reversed course and going back up again. This is not a random occurrence.
chasd00 2 hours ago [-]
weren't we suppose to be staring at empty shelves, house arrest, fire and brimstone / dogs and cats living together by now? The doominfo has been _so_ loud and _so_ constant for _so_ many years that the words have no meaning.

I want to believe but I'm fear fatigued to the point I just have no fear left to give

frankbreetz 6 minutes ago [-]
Are you suggesting that this is the fault of the people who said tariff's are a bad idea?
IAmGraydon 2 hours ago [-]
>weren't we suppose to be staring at empty shelves, house arrest, fire and brimstone / dogs and cats living together by now?

What are you even talking about?

chasd00 2 hours ago [-]
Everything everywhere since late 2015 or so.
amanaplanacanal 2 hours ago [-]
During Trump's first term there were still adults in the room, mostly keeping him from doing anything completely crazy. This time they have all been replaced by toadies and yes men. It's a completely different time.
elzbardico 3 hours ago [-]
Frankly, I haven't seen a single country where I spent any significant amount of time, where official inflation numbers were not seeing as a complete joke by the common folks. And my experience usually matched it.

There's plenty of space to hide reality when building a price index.

Price index do not capture the reality of most people cost of living. They don't capture the family that have to buy margarine instead of butter, because butter became too expensive, while margarine became cheaper, Weight both items as the same, and voilá! no inflation, increases in the price of butter were cancelled by cheaper margarine, fuck you if you prefer butter.

We can also do the same with housing: Capture prices as the average of a basket of cities. In reality, some cities will have absurd price increases while others are in decadence. The average prices increase of a disputed locality like NYC metro area will probably be masked by the fact that houses in BeltRustAssEnd, MI are becoming increasingly cheap. But, for the real person, what the fuck matters if BeltRustAssEnd houses are cheap as bananas? Who can get a job there?

And of course, a single number cannot capture the subtleties of reality like the fact that while it is great that 80" TVs are now so cheap that they can be bought by the commoner, this fact means fucking nothing if having a roof over your head in a place where you don't need to spend most of your live commuting is becoming increasingly too expensive for a lot of the same folks. Too bad the commoner is just a paycheck away from being in the streets as he cannot pay for a house! He now has a TV that not even Queen Elisabeth could have just a few years ago!

ferguess_k 3 hours ago [-]
Yeah. Most people should build their own inflation index. It's not hard whence you realize the biggest expenditures are usually 1) mortgage/rent, and 2) food. I wouldn't be surprised that given the rate hiking in recent years going along with higher food price, some people see dramatic "inflation".

Ofc one can always say that No this is not the academic way to define inflation, but who cares?

mendelmaleh 2 hours ago [-]
In 2022 I scraped the current prices for things I bought on amazon the year before, and got a 7% increase.

Unfortunately amazon stopped providing order reports recently...

``` $ inflation -y 2021 -f items.csv 86 successful items, 30 failed items 2256.76 total 2021 2427.62 total now +170.86 (+7%) difference ```

deeg 1 hours ago [-]
That's a pretty neat idea. Do the price aggregation sites (eg. camelcamecamel) do anything like that?
esafak 46 minutes ago [-]
Providing financial reports could be a great sideline for them. Are you listening, Camel?!
jahnu 3 hours ago [-]
> Frankly, I haven't seen a single country where I spent any significant amount of time, where official inflation numbers were not seeing as a complete joke by the common folks.

The public in general can be really bad at perceiving the truth. I might take note of people's feelings to go and recheck something but I would not trust peoples feelings with stuff like this to make any sort of conclusion.

Verifiable metrics* are the only way to get any sort of objective handle on this.

* Edit: I replied below that I should have said verifiable metrics and context with discussion. Verifiable metrics are necessary but not sufficient.

elzbardico 2 hours ago [-]
Let's unpack this. The real, objective reality of people living their lives is not the Truth.

But, instead a single index based on what is basically a bunch of arbitrary choices of a bunch of bureaucrats, subject to all kind of agendas and political/economical/social pressure, and based on an simulacrum of science that stands upon a bunch of questionable premises and unfalseable propositions is Truth.

The pythagorean cult of number has been a disgrace for the human race.

jahnu 2 hours ago [-]
Yes, economic metrics can be reductive. E.g. believing GDP is a measure of well being is a common reductive mistake. However, the public are often wildly incorrect. I should have been more precise and said that in order to have a productive analysis and make good policy you need objective metrics and context with discussion.
vel0city 2 hours ago [-]
> The real, objective reality of people living their lives is not the Truth.

People usually aren't objective though even when looking around at their own lives. When evaluating inflation in groceries they'll point to a few things that have had some pretty massive spikes (beef, eggs, soda) and ignore a lot of the other things in their shopping cart that hasn't had anywhere near as much inflation (grains, pastas, lunchmeats, pork, lots of vegetables, potatoes, lots of fresh fruit, etc).

It can be pretty difficult for most people to actually be objective when looking at the world. Tons of people let emotions dominate what they see.

I'm not arguing the BLS price index numbers are entirely perfect measures of reality, but the number of times I've had people tell me things like eating out is 10x more expensive than it was a few years ago is quite high. Is that an objective reality?

ferguess_k 3 hours ago [-]
No. It's more like the elites don't GaF about the ordinary people, and then there is no trust between the two.
Workaccount2 3 hours ago [-]
Fortunately (or unfortunately) the world is not nearly as nefarious or conspiratorial as people with shorter sticks tend to make it out to be.
ferguess_k 2 hours ago [-]
No, it is not. They simple don't care to cover up anymore so we don't need to invent tin hats anymore.
lentil_soup 2 hours ago [-]
sure, but are there any alternatives? To make data backed decisions you need to measure something, even if not perfect it gives you some sort of relative direction for the things measured. Not perfect but better than no data at all
3 hours ago [-]
buyucu 3 hours ago [-]
This is what happens when the same item now has a %20 tariff on it.
monkeyelite 2 hours ago [-]
Then they use an alternative which will raise the price less than 20%.
26 minutes ago [-]
zombiwoof 2 hours ago [-]
[dead]
kylebenzle 4 hours ago [-]
[dead]
Cuuugi 3 hours ago [-]
Tarrif's will do that...
flanked-evergl 3 hours ago [-]
In Norway our food prices has gone up by more than 4 in one month while we are destroying any capacity for local production while we have protectionism that would make Trump blush.

How is that not newsworthy, but this is?

celsoazevedo 2 hours ago [-]
It's probably newsworthy, but this is an American website and Norway isn't exactly on the same level as the US. I wouldn't expect the same level of attention, at least internationally.
Workaccount2 2 hours ago [-]
Norway has a population half that of New York City.
dragontamer 2 hours ago [-]
In the USA, food prices are non-core inflation and most volatile indeed.

Food prices go up because of random weather events (or locus or disease). USA beef prices are skyrocketing because of some new disease for example.

Anyone who says that a monthly food price change is an underlying indicator of overall inflation is simply lying to you.

apt-apt-apt-apt 1 hours ago [-]
Four what, cats, pesos or quesos?
Nicook 3 hours ago [-]
america/trump obsession
2 hours ago [-]
SV_BubbleTime 2 hours ago [-]
I’m always shocked at how many economics experts there are on a tech forum!
monkeyelite 2 hours ago [-]
This one isn’t surprising at all though. It’s a technical subject with everyday relevance and lots of material to learn about it.

Unless you’re implying special credentials should be required to comment.

amanaplanacanal 2 hours ago [-]
Yeah this stuff is not expert-only level economics, this is pretty basic.
ivape 3 hours ago [-]
I dont think it’s the tariffs. I really think the entire category of merchants looked at each other and figured it was fine to raise prices. Similar to when one person makes the decision to cross the street on the red light, and then a few more trickle after, until the whole sidewalk follows along.

Six chicken nuggets at McDonald’s runs you $6. Fuck that, this is just greed. The logistical argument that fake ass grinded chicken got more expensive to ship, a recipe that never changed, suddenly more expensive to make. I don’t buy it (literally).

I’ll eat water and beans until this type of economic warfare is over. Can’t stand these greedy bastards.

Majromax 3 hours ago [-]
> I dont think it’s the tariffs. I really think the entire category of merchants looked at each other and figured it was fine to raise prices.

Those statements aren't contradictory. Pricing in non-commodity goods is always a human phenomenon, driven ultimately by the idea that a business can 'get away with it' without losing too many customers to competitors.

Tariffs, on the other hand, provide a good reason/excuse to raise prices. Affected firms see their cost structures blown up, so they have to raise prices at least somewhat. Unaffected firms see that their competitors are raising / must raise prices, so they know that they can raise their own prices in the now less-competitive market. That's how and why tariffs work: they give domestic firms protection to have profits in excess of what they would have under a free trade counterfactual.

Any argument that tariffs don't raise prices is a very long-term one, relying on the idea that it will be easy to open new firms and expand domestic production to ultimately return to a competitive market. This has nearly no effect on short-term pricing, and it's why the least-damaging changes to tariff policies are long-run and well-telegraphed plans, slowly implemented.

Lendal 2 hours ago [-]
That's what tariffs do though. If you have a product that competes with another that now costs more due to tariffs, you're now free to raise your prices as well, in order to maximize profit. Your product may not have a tariff, but it does have greedy shareholders that see that they can now raise their earnings because competitors suddenly aren't so competitive anymore.

Try going on a shareholder earnings call. They're free. It's company executives trying to impress shareholders. It's the only place I've ever heard people brag about how much they've raised their prices.

ivape 2 hours ago [-]
We’re talking about a lot of domestic goods here. Why’s the BLT more expensive? It’s literally just bacon, lettuce and tomato.

Scams are scams, man. This is not economics, it’s human nature. Tariffs did not make the price of your BLT go up, it’s greed.

avgDev 1 hours ago [-]
A lot of domestic goods can be affected by the tariff war US is waging. We are a part of a global economy. Additionally, ICE raids are adding to the issue.

Even for products made in the US if other things increase the cost of running a business those costs will get passed on to the buyer. It takes LABOR to get bacon, lettuce and tomato....have you heard about ICE raids and crops getting wasted because people are not showing up to work? That will affect prices as less produce = higher prices as demand increases.

If equipment gets more expensive, then cost of produce gets more expensive. I work for a manufacturing company...under Trump our cost has been spiking due to insane tariffs....those costs are passed to people who make equipment and to farmers, then to YOU.

churchill 1 hours ago [-]
>Tariffs did not make the price of your BLT go up, it’s greed.

What do you want to do about it, Stalin? Use the power of the state to legislate away human greed? Imprison these greedy people? Impose price controls (which have a long, storied history of not working and only leading to shortages and queues)?

We build economic policy around human nature, not otherwise. Humans will always seek to maximize profit at all costs. If you lock out foreign suppliers from competing using tariffs, local suppliers will reason that they can charge more and will rightly do so. And tariffs in one area end up affecting so many other areas in unforeseen ways. That's how tariffs on chemical fertilizer might end up affecting the price of something as mundane as bacon, lettuce, and tomato.

That's why free markets are important. They give buyers options, and sellers then have to lower their prices reasonably to be chosen/picked from that sea of options.

If you want lower prices, remove tariffs and trade restrictions.

jurking_hoff 28 minutes ago [-]
> What do you want to do about it, Stalin? Use the power of the state to legislate away human greed? Imprison these greedy people? Impose price controls

Fair enough

But in the same spirit, I will just murder you. What are you gonna do? Police human nature?

xnx 3 hours ago [-]
Business is always "greedy", but it's true that it took some external events to make them realize they could get away with higher prices because consumers had gotten lazy about comparison shopping and alternatives. Good on you for boycotting increases by eating simply.
Workaccount2 2 hours ago [-]
Because business is not a single monolith, and because it is greedy, it kills the naive idea that "businesses raise prices because they can".

Any gouging price increase is a gaping hole for a competitor (businesses are greedy and therefore will take money from other businesses) to come in and steal business. This is something that is obvious to people who have been on the business side and mostly opaque to people who have only ever been on the consumer side.

sjsdaiuasgdia 2 hours ago [-]
I'll hold my breath for the fast food chain that lowers its prices to better compete with the chains that raised theirs.

We have plenty of examples, with documentation and receipts, of businesses participating in price fixing, collusion, and other cooperative behaviors that result in higher prices for consumers and reduced competition between businesses.

You are naively assuming that all businesses express greed in the same way. Some of them realize they can make quite a lot of money with a lot less work by working together to raise prices. Not all markets are easy for a newcomer to break into, competition is far from guaranteed if the established players are cooperating.

Workaccount2 44 minutes ago [-]
>We have plenty of examples

The issue isn't that we have plenty of examples (which is actually a handful, people always go to the same 2 or 3 cases, but I digress), it's that we have orders of magnitude more counter-examples that are ignored.

It's important to not build your world view on headlines, because headlines are headlines because they are outliers. It's not news when companies competitively adjust prices, it happens thousands of times a day all over the economy. If there was an "undercut on price" button in business meetings, you wouldn't even be able to read the text on it it would be so worn out.

amanaplanacanal 2 hours ago [-]
Fast food chains are giant corporations. Where you would see the difference is in the mom and pop shop, who can now undercut the big chain and probably has better quality food.
sjsdaiuasgdia 2 hours ago [-]
Mom & Pop shops aren't present at most highway exits like the big chains, and would need to become unbelievably, impossibly successful locally to generate enough capital to expand widely. They can't effectively compete with major chains. It's not a meaningful expression of the other poster's point.
27 minutes ago [-]
aurareturn 3 hours ago [-]
It’s the tariffs. You’re assuming that everyone will raise the price and have the same goals. Some businesses will see it as an opportunity to undercut and gain market share.

After all, total profit = sales margin * sales volume. You can increase your profit by increasing your volume because you kept your prices unchanged while your competitors decided to increase prices.

marknutter 1 hours ago [-]
Tariffs don't affect products that are produced locally.
myrmidon 29 minutes ago [-]
Tariffs affect local product prices in a lot of ways.

1) They reduce competitive pressure so local producers can raise prices without losing market share (that is the actual point)

2) They increase local demand for production capacity and labor in general, driving up costs even in sectors that are completely unaffected by the tariffs themselves

marknutter 19 minutes ago [-]
McDonald's was never sourcing chicken for their chicken nuggets from outside the country.
avgDev 59 minutes ago [-]
Wrong.
chasd00 3 hours ago [-]
it works as long as all businesses are working together to fix prices, all it takes is one to undercut the other and reap the reward then it's every person/business for itself. I don't really care because, like you, my thought is go ahead and raise prices all you want I just won't be buying.
ta12653421 2 hours ago [-]
Honestly? Thats faaaar too cheap for an animal product.

And since this is super low qualy, there should be an additional markup of 30-50%

thisisit 2 hours ago [-]
You are right. An entire category of merchants (made in USA) looked at others (importers) who now need to pay increase prices due an import tax and figured it was fine to raise prices. Those greedy businesses who figured that you can raise prices just below the import tariffs and make consumers pay. Oh wait, what were you saying about tariffs?
ivape 2 hours ago [-]
This was happening for years before the tariffs.
thisisit 2 hours ago [-]
Just because something is happening for years doesn't mean there cannot be extra incentive to make it worse today. But you just handwaved tariffs away. and did the inflation go up by 0.9% in a month in those years?
whoiskevin 3 hours ago [-]
You don't think it is the one thing being wielded as a personal enrichment device by a giant man child that cheats at golf is the cause? Well okay good luck with that.
ivape 3 hours ago [-]
No. The price creep has been happening for years even under Biden. As someone mentioned, tariffs were just an excuse to accelerate it. The things in your grocery store are domestic goods.

We can look for mythical technical explanations as to what’s happening, but all things used to explain anything in our society is just to describe the state of your fellow man. Your fellow man is greedy. There.

terminalshort 3 hours ago [-]
Why get mad about people selling things for more than you will pay? Just don't buy it and move on.
ivape 2 hours ago [-]
Because it’s getting bad. I’ve dealt with overpriced pizza where they try to save money on the sauce and cheese. They are beginning to nickel and dime customers the way banks and the tech industry engineer margins and fees.

I called some of these places and had to tell them to stop scamming customers. Fuck that, I’m buying a pizza oven.

ericmay 3 hours ago [-]
I think it’s a combination of a number of things:

  Tariffs
  Price gouging and folks continuing to pay
  Lack of alternatives - have a garden? Know how to work on a car? Etc. 
  Genuine competition for resources around the world and increased demand for those resources
mapotofu 3 hours ago [-]
Yes, stop going to McDonalds altogether and cook at home. For $6 I can get a pack of 4 pack of artisanal and locally made sausages and dip them in mustard for literally the same value, far more food, and 1000x better taste. Stop supporting these poisonous companies.
dcchambers 22 minutes ago [-]
It's been clear for years that the actual the majority of people are experiencing is well above the reported numbers.
mark_l_watson 3 hours ago [-]
Over the years I have read a few articles or blogs that make the argument that if government inflation figures in the US were calculated as they do in Europe, then our reported US inflation figures would be much higher. Can anyone here verify this?

Our main problems involve under the table unreported to the public military expenditures. If you look at a map of our military bases, we have many bordering China. I think our total number is close to 900. Those costs are a bleeding hemorage to the middle class tax payer who aren’t getting a cut of military profiteering because they don’t own ‘defense’ stocks.

Consumer debt is almost as much of a worry as government debt.

Eventually countries that don't spend most of their treasure on their military will win. There has to be a balance between true defense spending and healthy spending like feeding and educating children, infrastructure, R&D that helps society, etc.

Aurornis 2 hours ago [-]
> Over the years I have read a few articles or blogs

Without linking the blogs or articles it’s hard to say much.

Inflation is a topic that attracts a lot of quackery. There are a lot of blogs and websites that go viral from time to time with claims that the “true” inflation number is dramatically higher.

There is a quick reality check you should run whenever you encounter these claims: Take the claimed inflation number over a period of time and calculate the net multiple. Then run a reality check on something like a $500,000 house or a $5 hamburger.

There’s one prolific website and author who claims the “true” inflation rate is some number like 11% going back decades. If you do the math, that means something purchased 50 years ago in 1975 would cost 185 times less. A $1,000,000 home today would have been $5,400 in 1975 and a $5 hamburger today would have been less than $0.03. Obviously these numbers don’t work, so you can discard the author’s claim.

Actual inflation numbers over long periods are very sensitive to small changes due to compounding. Even over a 10 year period. When you see someone claiming dramatically different results, run a quick math check.

Also be careful for the cherry pickers: They’ll identify one or two outlier year-over-year jumps (eggs during COVID, home prices during a housing rush, insurance prices in a city after a fire) and try to use those as their basis.

deeg 2 hours ago [-]
Good response. I might suggest not using housing because so many people treat it like an investment, which means its value goes up faster than inflation (if it's a good investment). But otherwise I totally agree with you.
kingofmen 1 hours ago [-]
> its value goes up

Its price goes up. "Price is what you pay, value is what you get"; houses do not increase in value over time.

username332211 2 hours ago [-]
At the risk of defending quackery, most claims about inflation being inaccurate involve the changes made to CPI estimations in 1996. I'll go as far as to say I've never heard any claim that is inaccurate going back to the 1970s.
Workaccount2 3 hours ago [-]
The defence budget is America's job program. Very little of the money that is defense spending ends up in defense shareholder pockets. The overwhemling vast majority goes to propping up America's (now) anemic industrial base. Remember that virtually all defense dollars are constrained to only be spent on American made things and services. And most of money sent to the big contractors goes to the gazillion sub-contractors they use.

This is why the defense budget is never cut. By anyone red or blue. It's a funnel of money that can be pointed at any location in the US and give a bunch of decent full benefits jobs.

landtuna 1 hours ago [-]
The US defense budget, as a percentage of GDP, has been cut a huge amount! https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/ms.mil.xpnd.gd.zs?locat...

If you don't think it makes sense to scale it by GDP (though I do), then in real terms it has gone through cycles since 1965, with definite periods of decrease, even though the overall trend is upward: https://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/edgraph.html

mbfg 2 hours ago [-]
I believe less than a quarter of the defense budget is for salaries and compensations.
abtinf 2 hours ago [-]
All spending everywhere is essentially “salaries and compensation”. It’s not like you get to the end of the supply chain and suddenly are paying God. Money always goes to people.
lukas099 2 hours ago [-]
I don't agree. If I dig a hole in my yard and find a huge chunk of gold, when I sell it very little of what I charge will be for my labor.

Also, even if you're right, the "salaries and compensation" of anyone outside the U.S. are effectively NOT that, since the thing in question is whether defense spending is mostly a jobs program.

9rx 54 minutes ago [-]
> when I sell it very little of what I charge will be for my labor.

That's debatable. Without the labor input the product doesn't exist as far as the market knows. However, if you want to discount the labor portion, which is an equally valid take, it remains that what was said was “salaries and compensation”. Any compensation you receive for giving up the gold in your possession was already recognized. As said earlier, the exchanged value doesn't go to God, it goes to people.

> since the thing in question is whether defense spending is mostly a jobs program.

You can certainly play a game of semantics here, but generally "job" in this type of context refers to any kind of economic role, not necessarily direct labor. "It is my job to provide gold to the world" doesn't imply that you are the one doing the actual extraction. The significance of "job programs" is in offering opportunity to derive an income, not to give opportunity to strain muscles.

Workaccount2 2 hours ago [-]
>when I sell it very little of what I charge will be for my labor.

No, almost all of it would cover your labor.

What you are describing is winning the lottery, which isn't really useful since it is a rounding error of possible scenarios. A "Having a career is meaningless because you can just win the lotto instead" kind of scenario.

In reality you would be digging for ages in your yard to find a nugget of gold. If you went to a place with gold to dig, you would be a gold miner, and no, it's not easy money, go ask them.

frankbreetz 2 hours ago [-]
Profit would fall into an entirely different category then "salaries and compensation"
abtinf 2 hours ago [-]
Certainly. So would materials expenses and theft and insurance and so forth.

But the confusion is that somehow, money not spent on “salaries and compensation” doesn’t go to people. All of it goes to people.

Defense spending isn’t buying “defense”, it’s buying time and effort for people to focus on and produce defense related things. This is the root of the original post that defense spending is a jobs program.

ffsm8 2 hours ago [-]
> All of it goes to people

That's just straight up false.

It goes to legal entities, some of which are people.

Companies aren't people mate, and neither are investment funds.

The money might still be managed by people, but that cannot be called salary, even if you're stretching the definition.

abtinf 1 hours ago [-]
For the sake of argument, let’s assume everything you said is true.

Would you agree if I reworded my statement to “ultimately, all money eventually flows to people, whether for their labor or due to their ownership of the entities receiving the money”?

ffsm8 31 minutes ago [-]
Ownership is a legal concept, you could even call it fictional.

So yes, all transactions can be linked be back to individuals, if you ignore all details and make some gigantic leaps of faith... But what's the insight?

Are we just doing philosophy like in ancient Greece?

lukas099 2 hours ago [-]
But companies are owned by people. As are funds.
frankbreetz 1 hours ago [-]
yes, but "salaries and compensation" are people doing work, and profit gets paid to shareholders. Most people would agree that the bulk of taxpayer dollars should go to working people and not shareholders, these are two entirely different categories. All of it goes to people, is such a reduction. We could just cut a check to Elon Musk and claim "All of goes to people". It is important to establish the difference, between paying people for labor and giving people money in the form of profit.
2 hours ago [-]
monkeyelite 2 hours ago [-]
But when you get to the end of the supply chain the US gov has very little control of who is getting that money.

It’s not an obvious stimulus for US citizens, and in fact taking resources that would benefit other US ventures.

estearum 2 hours ago [-]
Well, really at rock bottom all payments go into land rent.
lukas099 2 hours ago [-]
Sounds interesting but I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around that. Would you care to elaborate?
Workaccount2 2 hours ago [-]
That is only for people in the DoD.

Almost nothing that the DoD uses is made by the DoD. It's pretty much all 3rd party contractors, and those contractors handle paying their employees.

Yokolos 2 hours ago [-]
https://usafacts.org/answers/how-much-does-the-us-spend-on-d...

22%. But operations also includes civilian salaries and procurement naturally includes the labor required to produce what was procured. I would assume that R&D also includes research grants and salaries.

OrvalWintermute 2 hours ago [-]
the current number is around 12.5% of the federal budget (2025 Administration budget, discretionary & non-discretionary).
Aurornis 2 hours ago [-]
The companies that build and supply things for the military have to pay salaries and compensation, too.
gruez 2 hours ago [-]
Presumably that's only for DoD employees and people serving in the armed forces? It doesn't include defense contractor salaries.
micromacrofoot 2 hours ago [-]
they're not burning the money, it all goes into someone's pocket
atomicnumber3 2 hours ago [-]
It is also kind of handy that we get aircraft carriers out of it too.

Mind you, I'm a socialist, so like, I personally wish we could move a bunch of the "jobs program" stuff over so that instead of carriers, we get well-educated, fed, and cared-for children and good medical care for all, and stuff like that. And that if we want a certain number of aircraft carriers, we should just try to actually get that many carriers on purpose for the cost that building the carriers entails. Without also trying to do 10 million other things on top of it to the point that the carrier output is a side-effect.

But like, it's probably better than no carriers at all, which is how it's going for lots of other countries. So I guess that's something to hold on to.

andsoitis 3 hours ago [-]
> Over the years I have read a few articles or blogs that make the argument that if government inflation figures in the US were calculated as they do in Europe, then our reported US inflation figures would be much higher. Can anyone here verify this?

Your question at the end suggests those blogs and articles didn’t include compelling evidence for the case they were making. If true, then it is worth reconsidering whether it makes sense to incorporate into your world view.

monkeyelite 2 hours ago [-]
That’s because consumer inflation is subjective. You can choose which goods and data point represent personal experience.

As you well know the government uses “hedonic adjustment” which is when they say a car in 2025 is so much better that a car in 1980 that higher prices should be reduced to reflect that better good.

A different model is that you need A car to participate in society so even if it’s better we just raised to the cost to exist.

mark_l_watson 3 hours ago [-]
Good point. How do you gather information? I split my time about half each reading US news and news from other countries. There are a few people I find believable like Dr. Jeffrey Sachs and retired congressman Ron Paul (these two guys are quite different politically) and I will listen to each of them once or twice a month, just to occasionally get non-mainstream news viewpoints.
jack_h 2 hours ago [-]
If you're truly curious I would say the best way to start is to get a basic understanding of economics and how our current system actually operates. It's also important to look up the data as it actually exists rather than consuming conclusions from commentators without investigating further.

For instance your initial post seems to imply that we aren't balancing our defense vs social spending and are spending way too much on the former. However, that doesn't align with our current outlays. If you check out the latest US Treasury report the outlays for the current fiscal year shows $1314bn for Social Security, $841bn for interest payments on the debt, $823bn for medicare, $805bn for health, and $758bn for defense. The primary driver of debt in the future will be the entitlement programs and interest.

Of course the unfortunate reality is that most people do not have the time to learn about everything and do their own research so we will always rely on others to some extent for our information. The danger is when your world view fills in the gaps of knowledge you lack combined with the facts you believe you know taken from someone else who may be mistaken, misleading, or outright lying.

mark_l_watson 2 hours ago [-]
Just my opinion (but I did work in the defense industry from 1974 to 1998), but I just don’t believe the published ~ 800 billion defense spending numbers. A few presidents ago, the chairman of the joint chiefs publicly said that 7 trillion in military spending is unaccounted for.

Also, I admit to getting much of my information from professor Dr. Jeffrey Sachs, an economist.

I took an online economics class from Wharton business school, specifically on the economics of globalization. Fascinating stuff.

Anecdotal, but as a hobby for the last 20 years, I enjoy comparing the coverage of major news and economics stories in USA vs. other countries.

jack_h 1 hours ago [-]
> A few presidents ago, the chairman of the joint chiefs publicly said that 7 trillion in military spending is unaccounted for.

You're likely referring to the fact that the pentagon can't pass an audit even though there have been requirements going back to the 90s. That's more about tracking where the money they spent is going as opposed to the total quantity of money they are spending though, i.e. the $800bn is "accurate" but some portion of it may have vanished due to bad accounting, corruption, waste, fraud, etc...

Having said that any accounting for an entity the size of the US government is non-trivial. The numbers I stated above are not the final numbers. Firstly because it's YTD but also because of the complexity in the accounting. We have decades of trend lines and a lot of public data on tax receipts, bond auctions, and the like to know that defense spending isn't drastically different than what is being reported though. If you have any analysis that concludes otherwise I would enjoy reading it.

1 hours ago [-]
9rx 3 hours ago [-]
> I have read a few articles or blogs that make the argument that if government inflation figures in the US were calculated as they do in Europe, then our reported US inflation figures would be much higher.

Do you mean the other way around? The EU headline inflation rate doesn't include costs of owning a home like the US' does (owner's equivalent rent), which, as you might have guessed if you have ever wanted to own a home, is a component that has been quite inflationary, at least as far as recent memory goes. Or maybe those blogs were talking about some point a long time ago when that component pulled the US figures down (e.g. during the last housing crash)? What specific details did they give?

leogiertz 2 hours ago [-]
This is actually quite interesting. I ran into Stefan Ingves on the street in Stockholm, the former Governor of the Swedish Riksbank, and asked him why the Swedish inflation calculations did not include housing prices.

The short answer is that they're waiting on a harmonised EU wide system for that will include housing in some measure, but that has been taking longer than expected and they didn't want to change the system in Sweden before the new system was finished...

Quite frustrating given the massive increase in housing prices since '08. Would probably have been much lower with a higher interest rate.

FirmwareBurner 3 hours ago [-]
Exactly. Don't know about all of Europe, but I find the way inflation is calculated in the countries i lived here as bad faith since it intentionally omits housing costs.

So just like a commenter below said, I haven't seen a single country where I spent any significant amount of time, where official inflation numbers were not seeing as a complete joke by the common folks. Everyone unanimously agreed the numbers are gamed in order to control public opinion.

I've also seen a lot of gaslighting from politicians with mental gymnastics on how the population is not poor but actually rich because "look how many (Asian made)washing machines you can buy with an average salary here today, while for previous generations this type of items was a luxury".

Yeah mate, my parent could barely afford a European made washing machine, but they could afford their own house at age 25-30, working jobs that required litte education. Must be all that avocado toast to blame.

2 hours ago [-]
Al-Khwarizmi 44 minutes ago [-]
Yes. I'm from Spain, and here housing rental costs are included in inflation... but they're a 4% of the index. Which is laughable, as most people are spending more like 30%-50% of their income on rent.

The rationale is that most people (read: people over 50 or 60) live in houses they own, those spend 0 on rental, so if you calculate the average expenditure on rental, it's low. And buying houses counts as an "investment" so it's not included.

So basically what you say: totally gamed.

GreedClarifies 2 hours ago [-]
Fred has the data:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CP0000EZ19M086NEST#

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SUUR0000SA0

I’m driving, it’s difficult to put them on the same chart and normalize. But they are very similar. There are differences in methodology (housing, healthcare) but those generally add a small amount to US inflation chained index vs HICP.

layer8 2 hours ago [-]
You read and post on HN while driving?
CalRobert 1 hours ago [-]
Please don’t use your phone while driving.
mulmen 47 minutes ago [-]
Put your phone it down before you kill someone. You’re taking an indefensible risk.
Al-Khwarizmi 54 minutes ago [-]
> Eventually countries that don't spend most of their treasure on their military will win.

Being from Europe, I wish. But for now, it doesn't seem to be the case. Your military power basically allows you to bully Europe and many others, tell us what to buy and whom to buy it from, which is an enormous economic advantage. You just made our puny European leaders promise an enormous investment in the US defense industry in the moment where we would need to propel our own industry the most (it probably won't materialize, but still, we'll spend at least some of it because most of our leaders don't want to be in a bad standing with the US). You are also bullying us into signing contracts with inferior American suppliers rather than Huawei, among many other things. All of this happens mainly due to the US's disproportionate military power. Meanwhile, you can afford having a president who is borderline illiterate (and actually makes binding decisions) without the economy even meaningfully sinking (stocks at historical maximums).

So spending in the military seems to actually be a good choice, unfortunately.

infecto 3 hours ago [-]
Had trouble following your core point. Do you have references regarding 900 bases with many bordering China. I have never seen such figures or that they border China.
2 hours ago [-]
mark_l_watson 3 hours ago [-]
Google Gemini 2.5 Pro just estimated 200 military bases close to China (I used “close” in my prompt, not very precise, so that number is likely including bases in the general area.)

Gemini estimated 750 to 800 total military bases.

vancroft 2 hours ago [-]
Al Jazeera reports around 750 US military bases, across the world but concentrated in Europe, Japan and South Korea, and the Middle East. Not quite bordering China. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/9/10/infographic-us-mili...
infecto 2 hours ago [-]
This is not wrong but the term base is click baity but probably an accepted definition from the pentagon. It’s include all facilities no matter or large or small and even those that are part of another base but not on the main campus. It’s almost like a count of buildings.
abtinf 2 hours ago [-]
I haven’t checked, but I would guess this number even includes things like NSA outposts (since NSA is part of DoD) and embassies (which are protected by Marines).
infecto 27 minutes ago [-]
While that may be true, if I understand correctly the typical “base” number is effectively down to a structure. So if you have a radar station in Japan that has a handful of employees and they report up to one of the larger complexes, that counts as a base. It is conflating imo with what people picture as a base.
dgfitz 33 minutes ago [-]
Generally, intelligence officers/employees (such as people who work at NSA) deploy to bases, or FOBs. I'm sure there are a handful of "NSA outposts" but this isn't generally how it works.
infecto 2 hours ago [-]
Hmmm let’s clear this up because the way you write is extremely click baity. I believe those higher numbers are less a military base and better thought of as a facility. They could be a small housing facility, radio station etc. it’s a valid number but I think base is probably not the right way to describe.

When you say China that is incredibly disingenuous. If we said Asia yeah sure and that is effectively Japan and Korea.

Now let’s think about it more in terms of major bases/complexes. We are looking at maybe 25 in and around Japan and 10 for Korea. Still not a small number but I think a very different mental picture than 900 bases mostly around China. Also worth nothing that’s probably around 80k people deployed in those two countries.

rafram 2 hours ago [-]
This is not useful.
dgfitz 2 hours ago [-]
So no, no sources.
sjsdaiuasgdia 2 hours ago [-]
Why would you think those are good sources for a question like this?
mark_l_watson 2 hours ago [-]
maybe I am wrong to do this, but I run Gemini 2.5 Pro in ‘research mode’, ask a question I am interested in, wait usually about 2 to 4 minutes and Gemini summarizes a large number of sources for me.

I think there is a lot of bias everywhere, and I thought that this sort of averages some of the noise away.

I think grandparent comments about what constitutes a military base vs. a facility are interesting. I was a defense contractor from 1974 to 1998, and it seemed like all the US bases I visited were very large, but some of the NATO bases I visited were much smaller. Sorry to be anecdotal here, just explaining my own experiences.

sjsdaiuasgdia 1 hours ago [-]
I've had too many lies told to me by all of these "AI" tools to trust anything I don't already know to be true without verifying the referenced sources myself. At that point, if I'm giving the information to anyone else, I might as well communicate the sources rather than an AI's impression of the sources. There's just no value add to me beyond identifying potential sources in "research mode".
mark_l_watson 41 minutes ago [-]
OK, point taken. I will post a link in the future.
zug_zug 3 hours ago [-]
I can't speak to this, but I suspect something is afoot.

I know my mom went to a university that she paid for with a part-time job while a student. Currently that university's tuition is 80,000 a year. When I looked at what inflation figures said for college education, it wasn't enough to account for that 10x+ increase.

Aurornis 2 hours ago [-]
> Currently that university's tuition is 80,000 a year.

University tuition is a known example of an extreme inflation outlier. The cause is also known: The availability of loan dollars and the laws preventing their discharge in bankruptcy.

Tuition figures are also misleading because almost nobody pays that number. The tuition number is the maximum possible amount someone could pay without financial assistance, but when you look at the numbers you would be surprised to see that often 80% or more of students have some financial assistance. At many universities now, students with families below certain income levels have tuition adjusted down to $0.

You can’t judge university prices by the number on the website any more.

chasd00 2 hours ago [-]
as far as college education prices go, there's no ceiling on education prices because there's no risk to lenders, they can lend as much as they want with no risk. As long as young people feel there isn't an alternative to a college education and risk to lenders is close to zero then there is no limit to what colleges can charge.
saghm 2 hours ago [-]
That's wild, I had no idea they had gotten that high. When I was in college (2012-2016), the most expensive places were in the $50k-60k range, which already was quite absurd. The fact that they've grown so much even in the past decade is mind-boggling.
Aurornis 2 hours ago [-]
You entered college over a decade ago. We’ve had a lot of inflation in that time.

From an inflation adjusted perspective, I’d actually rather pay $80K now than to have had to pay $60K in 2016 when you graduated.

You also probably know that most students don’t pay full price due to sliding scales.

whimsicalism 2 hours ago [-]
$80k is basically $60k in 2012 dollars
apical_dendrite 2 hours ago [-]
Most US students don't go to selective private universities that charge $80,000 a year (and most students at those universities don't pay $80,000 a year). Only about a quarter of students go to private universities and most of those are not particularly selective. Most students go to state schools that are a lot cheaper and where tuition is subject to different economic forces.

You can't decide that official inflation figures are inaccurate based on a specific, outlier example, when the official figures are based on averages.

vel0city 2 hours ago [-]
Also, the list prices for tuition and what the average student actually pays out of pocket in the end can be two very different figures after grants and scholarships come into play.

And yes, absolutely, $80k a year in tuition is a massive outlier. Average in-state university tuition is closer to $12k-13k/yr, before grants and scholarships. The extreme majority of US undergraduates aren't shelling out $80k/yr for tuition payments.

outside1234 2 hours ago [-]
Many more people want to go to university now yet we haven't increased the supply of quality universities.

I suspect this is also bimodal as well. The top universities can charge this, but the bottom probably are struggling to survive.

9rx 3 hours ago [-]
Inflation seeks to understand the change in value of a currency, not the change in value of a good or service. College being worth more (in the eyes of the customer), rather than the currency being worth less, is what accounts for the 10x increase.

I don't know how old your mom is, but it wasn't that long ago that people only went to college if they had good reason to, not because they were told they "had to" under the "A diamond is forever"-style marketing campaign. That shift in mindset enabled colleges to charge basically whatever they want. That is not a product of inflation.

gosub100 2 hours ago [-]
People didn't need to go to college before the death of the middle class. A couple generations ago you could rent an apartment and have a decent life working at a restaurant or warehouse or factory. Now most entry level jobs pay poverty level wages.
9rx 2 hours ago [-]
People didn't need to go to college because nobody cared. Employers were able to look at qualities of the actual person, not some outside attribute bolted onto the side. What changed was Griggs vs. Duke, which outlawed effectively all filtering mechanisms except a college degree, forcing the hand of employers.

That still didn't mean the workers had to comply, though. What do you think would happen, with respect to employment, if nobody attained a college degree? Not much. "Welp, no more college graduates. I guess we'd better shut our business down." would be said by nobody. Hiring would carry on as usual (aside from the lines possibly being longer, there being no legal mechanism to cull applicants early). But colleges certainly took the opportunity to present that idea and the people bought it hook, line, and sinker.

amanaplanacanal 2 hours ago [-]
That's not true though. We keep hearing about coding tests given to applicants in high tech, and those are still legal. The decision said that the test had to be reasonably related to the job, not that they couldn't be used.
9rx 2 hours ago [-]
> We keep hearing about coding tests given to applicants in high tech, and those are still legal.

I was referring to pre-engagement. Those coding tests are generally only given after an applicant has shown enough potential to give them the time of day.

Whereas employers with tens of thousands of resumes on their desk look for a way, as to not overwhelm the process, to throw most of them out before opening lines of communication with the person. That was "No degree, garbage it goes". But yes, now that everyone and their brother has a degree, this doesn't work so well nowadays, which is why employers are quickly moving back to not caring about degrees — as you observed with said coding tests trying to stand in as a replacement. But there was that time in even more recent history...

I also said "effectively". There are technically other ways, yes, but they aren't all that practical at scale which is why a degree was settled on as the de facto solution, at least during the time it was effective.

gosub100 2 hours ago [-]
A 1970 court case doesn't explain why my childhood friends' parents could afford to own 3 bedroom houses and have 1-2 kids while working at chain restaurants, distribution centers, and hospitality. This was in the 1990s. People cannot have this life now with the same jobs. Even with college degrees, it's barely attainable. People are doing the same amount of work but what would have been their wages are being diverted to the rich. To the point that they can barely afford to survive.
9rx 1 hours ago [-]
That is explained by housing also becoming more valuable. It wasn't that long ago that owning a house was considered a necessary evil at best, not the path to riches as it is recognized as today. Historically, you were lucky if you got your money back out of a house when you decided to sell it. Nowadays, if one doesn't get a double digit percentage return on investment they are crying like it is the end of the world. That shift in mindset allows homeowners to charge more when they sell their home[1]. That is not a product of inflation.

[1] Which also further perpetuates the idea of housing being an investment with said homeowner realizing a tidy return in that ability to charge more, which sees even more people wanting in on the action so that they too can make a fortune; lather, rinse, repeat.

amanaplanacanal 2 hours ago [-]
This has probably been suppressing prices for the last few decades. Inflation numbers would look even worse if the pay in those kinds of jobs has continued. People want lower prices for everything, no matter the cost to workers.
giantg2 2 hours ago [-]
US vs Europe inflation https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2006/05/art3full.pdf

"balance between true defense spending and healthy spending like feeding and educating children, infrastructure, R&D that helps society, etc."

Spending does not equal outcomes. There doesn't need to be a spending balance, but there should be an outcomes balance. We can see this with school funding. There are some schools that are underfunded and underperform, but there are also schools with adequate funding that underperform lower funded schools. The implication that you are making is that we could fix things just by cutting back military spending. However, we are also leaders in some of the areas you mention already, such as R&D. The Pentagon fails their audits frequently and should be trimmed down in areas that it makes sense. However, just shifting that money to education isn't going to make that much of an impact.

timcambrant 1 hours ago [-]
American consumer debt is also a different beast in the US because households tend to counter inflation and higher prices by shifting over their monthly spending to credit cards. Most Europeans use credit only for certain goods and mostly pay the full amount off every month. This creates an elasticity in the US, where inflation leads to higher prices which slowly leads to higher household debt, which makes recessions more grave when they do appear. Europeans are instead quicker to move to cheaper stores and start buying cheaper goods in bulk.
Thorrez 3 hours ago [-]
If the US dollar was being devalued faster than reported, and the Euro wasn't, wouldn't that be visible in the exchange rate?
mark_l_watson 3 hours ago [-]
I think Europe has worse financial problems than we do.
Thorrez 2 hours ago [-]
Ok. But we can look at the inflation rate that the US reports, and the inflation rate that the EU reports. Then compare the ratio of those to how the exchange rate changes.

I don't see how having financial problems would make this comparison invalid.

9rx 2 hours ago [-]
That might be an explanation for as to why the inflation figures are what they are, but the math described above wouldn't change. If one currency is quickly being devalued while another isn't, it is going to be obvious when you try to exchange those currencies.
panki27 3 hours ago [-]
Who is we?
mark_l_watson 2 hours ago [-]
I am a US citizen
piva00 3 hours ago [-]
Europe != EU != Eurozone.
abtinf 2 hours ago [-]
When you make insane claims like “the US has 900 military bases close to China”, you discredit yourself and your entire body of work.
mark_l_watson 2 hours ago [-]
Please quote me correctly. I said:

“” If you look at a map of our military bases, we have many bordering China. I think our total number is close to 900.””

I intended to say 900 in the entire world, but I corrected that in a comment to 750-900.

4fterd4rk 2 hours ago [-]
They didn't say that. Your reading comprehension is poor.
abtinf 2 hours ago [-]
> If you look at a map of our military bases, we have many bordering China. I think our total number is close to 900.

I would grant them the benefit of the doubt if English wasn’t their native language, but they’d identified as a US citizen elsewhere in the thread and their name strongly implies native speakership.

In the US, this conversational construction in this context is most reasonably interpreted as the second sentence completing the thought in the first.

If a manager asks an employee “how many dents are on the bumber?” A response of “I think the total number is close to 900”, that would be in reference to just the dents on the bumper, not all over the car.

Also, elsewhere in the thread, they’ve acknowledged they simply made the number up (by just repeating what a GPT said).

layer8 1 hours ago [-]
The sentence starts with “If you look at a map of our military bases”, which refers to all US military bases, not just the ones bordering China. The second sentence refers to that totality of bases.

I’d grant that there is a bit of ambiguity, but insinuating an “insane claim” is jumping the gun on a misreading that should have been fairly obvious in light of the “insanity”.

mark_l_watson 2 hours ago [-]
No, I asked Gemini 2.5 Pro in ‘deep research’ mode to give me an estimate.
infecto 2 hours ago [-]
Perhaps English is not your native language. It at best comes across that many of the 900 are surrounding China and at worst that the 900 is referring to China.
keybored 50 minutes ago [-]
> > Our main problems involve under the table unreported to the public military expenditures. If you look at a map of our military bases, we have many bordering China.

“Many” could be dozens or hundreds or over half. It’s poorly phrased to the point of being meaningless.

> > I think our total number is close to 900.

Total in the world.

infecto 29 seconds ago [-]
Glad you read it that way. The OP wrote it with a narrative of China which is already perplexing since we are mostly talking about Korean and Japanese bases but framing it as around China. You could read it either way. It’s poorly worded and click baity.
2 hours ago [-]
klooney 2 hours ago [-]
> Eventually countries that don't spend most of their treasure on their military will win.

Stipulating that they don't get eaten by their bigger neighbors. We're going to miss the Pax Americana.

mark_l_watson 39 minutes ago [-]
We will miss the US Navy keeping most shipping routes open and safe.
hshdhdhj4444 3 hours ago [-]
What does debt have to do with the calculation of inflation?

It may impact inflation but you seem to be claiming debt is a component of inflation calculation, when inflation is little more than the change in prices.

mark_l_watson 3 hours ago [-]
Thanks for pointing out something: I didn’t mean that debt is a component of CPI.

Interest on 37 trillion in US government debt as well as huge consumer debt certainly is a long (and short term?) drag on the economy, but I accept your point that I don’t understand the correlation.

I have a simplistic way of thinking about the economy: I tend to view things as being healthy or unhealthy to the economic well being of all people in my country. In general, hiding information from the public is not healthy. Look, this is just my opinion, but I believe that our government is in the business of hiding information from the public; the government (both political parties) exists in its present form to protect and nurture the special interests who pay them off one way or another.

phkahler 3 hours ago [-]
>> What does debt have to do with the calculation of inflation?

Debt isn't a component of inflation calculation but they are related. During Covid the US government increased the deficit (not debt, the derivative of debt) by a trillion dollars (no partisan stuff here, Trump did it first and then Biden). The infusion of money into the economy was one of the drivers of inflation between 2021 and 2025. You may ask, where did the money come from? I don't know. The government "borrowed" it, but from whom I don't know. Money "invested" does not necessarily get into the economy, but money invested in treasury bond gets spend by the government and definitely ends up in the economy.

I would love to have time (get paid?) to sit around and develop useful economic models. All I ever see is people offering simple cause and effect relationships (like I did above) without showing anything close to what I would consider a reasonable model of the economy.

seanmcdirmid 3 hours ago [-]
Technically speaking, the deficit peaked in 2020, fell a hit in 2021, and then fell a lot more in 2022, and then rose a bit in 2023 and 2024. The deficit on 2025 Inauguration Day was way smaller than on 2021 in Inauguration Day, so I’m not sure it would be fair to claim that Biden increased the deficit. See the graph at https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/natio...

Downvotes on this are weird, it’s just basic math (the deficit bar in 2025 is way lower than the deficit bar in 2021). I get FoxNews thinking math is a liberal conspiracy, but not HN.

RobAtticus 2 hours ago [-]
While true, there is another nuance missing here. The deficit was higher in 2020 & 2021 due to the Covid stimulus spending. Looking at 2017-2019 for Trump and 2022-2024 for Biden probably gives a fairer picture of what happened during both presidencies. It's basically been an upward trend since 2015, excluding the Covid outliers.
seanmcdirmid 2 hours ago [-]
Yes, that’s why I prefaced my comment with “technically.” To claim Biden grew the deficit, you would have to explain that COVID was some sort of exception and then argue that it still grew in spirit (rather than technically).

Although without COVID Trump was definitely still on track to have significantly raised the deficit since it was falling in most years under Obama compared to 2008/2009 (before COVID he grew the deficit significantly with his first round of tax cuts, just like he just did with the big beautiful bill), and it isn’t clear that Biden would have diverged from Obama without COVID around.

whimsicalism 2 hours ago [-]
Secret defense spending would not and should not impact inflation numbers except in so far as it impacts the already measured consumer basket, the US does not have 900 military bases near China, etc. etc.

Just not a very good comment in my view.

hibikir 3 hours ago [-]
It's a very difficult belief to have in the long run, because if the source of the "error" is always in one direction, it will compound to price level differences impossible to hide.

It's like the traditional view on GDP growth. Be a little slower than a similar country (say 0.5% a year) wait 20 years, and your formerly similar neighbor now sees your country as quite poor.

danans 2 hours ago [-]
And yet many less-rich countries have better infrastructure and health outcomes than the US. It seems clear that chasing GDP without also considering what is happening to wealth distribution has socially hollowed the otherwise-rich US.
Simon_O_Rourke 2 hours ago [-]
> Eventually countries that don't spend most of their treasure on their military will win.

Win what exactly?

terminalshort 3 hours ago [-]
It's like 3% of GDP. Not that big of a deal.
christianqchung 2 hours ago [-]
> Our main problems involve under the table unreported to the public military expenditures.

This is a common claim but I don't think it's supported. Defense spending is about 3.3% of GDP [0]. 15 years ago it was 4.9%, 40 years ago it was 6.45%, and it hit almost 10% in 1967 during peak spending in the Vietnam war. World War 2 made it around 35%. Also, what does unreported mean? Are you claiming that there is a significant amount of money being spent that isn't part of the reported military budget? How much? Defense spending was about 13% of the government budget in 2024 [1].

> If you look at a map of our military bases, we have many bordering China. I think our total number is close to 900.

How much do those cost? I understand the claim is a lot, but how much? If you don't know, why pick this as an example?

> Those costs are a bleeding hemorage to the middle class tax payer who aren’t getting a cut of military profiteering because they don’t own ‘defense’ stocks.

Defense stocks have not performed better relative to the Dow Jones. Raytheon stock has increased 5-fold since 1985 while the Dow has increased 33-fold over the same period. If defense was easy money, you'd see hedge funds loading up on it year on year. These companies aren't valued that much. Raytheon is valued at 208B [2], which is less than McDonalds, Nestle, T-Mobile, AMD, Home Depot, and Costco individually.

> Eventually countries that don't spend most of their treasure on their military will win. There has to be a balance between true defense spending and healthy spending like feeding and educating children, infrastructure, R&D that helps society, etc.

I agree with this, but given that America only spends 13% of the budget on the department of defense, your own claim is claiming an American win. In 2021 the American Rescue Plan induced a giant amount of domestic welfare spending plans such as almost doubling the child tax credit. This was a tremendously expensive plan that cut child poverty in half, but people didn't feel strongly enough to successfully pressure politicians to keep it, which does seem pretty frustrating to me.

Also, I see you're using AI for sources below. Feed your comment into GPT 5 thinking and ask for an opinion, because it apparently thinks your inflation claim is completely reversed.

[0] https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/usa/uni...

[1] https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/feder...

[2] https://companiesmarketcap.com/

sleepyguy 2 hours ago [-]
>Eventually countries that don't spend most of their treasure on their military will win. There has to be a balance between true defense spending and healthy spending like feeding and educating children, infrastructure, R&D that helps society, etc.

Ask Ukraine how that worked out for them. While your at it, tell the Baltics they should focus on society and not the Russian world that is coming for them.

kingkawn 3 hours ago [-]
The Pentagon’s informal name for those bases is “the Noose.”
mlinhares 3 hours ago [-]
Defense stocks are shit to own, you only make money by buying up politicians and landing large contracts.
queuebert 3 hours ago [-]
In other words, comparatively little of their profits are returned to shareholders. Insiders are making money, but the rest of us are shut out?
grim_io 3 hours ago [-]
It means that the infamous military industrial complex does not exist in its fabled money printing form.

Turns out, the US government is very demanding and stingy with its money for what it ultimately gets.

ttemPumpinRary 3 hours ago [-]
[dead]
tootie 3 hours ago [-]
Likely very specious. Inflation is an emergent property. CPI is measured by looking at consumer prices which is pretty transparent. The underlying causes may be obscured and, in fact, we see a lot of debate on the causes but that is irrelevant to actually measuring CPI.
mark_l_watson 3 hours ago [-]
Well, look at the history of removing things like living necessities and increasing things that have dropped in price like TVs.

Calculation of CPI is deranged by the cherry picking of what they measure.

amanaplanacanal 2 hours ago [-]
The basket of goods that they base the inflation rate on is created by surveying people and asking what they spent their money on. It's intended to reflect how households actually spend money. Not sure how that would be called "cherry picking". How do you think they should do it?
Supermancho 1 hours ago [-]
> The basket of goods that they base the inflation rate on is created by surveying people and asking what they spent their money on.

What mechanism was that done through? The census or Walmart data?

I don't think anyone has seen a staffed table outside a retail store labeled "CPI Survey". This feels like an important question.

tootie 41 minutes ago [-]
The methodology and data is all publicly available. Just go to bls.gov.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/hom/cpi/

Every time I've seen someone talk about "real" inflation or unemployment they're just applying a different view on the same BLS data. Metrics like CPI or PPI are derived via a formula to create an indicator. A benchmark that should be apples to apples over a period of time. It's not meant to be comprehensive. But the comprehensive data is all there too.

Supermancho 34 minutes ago [-]
> Using 2010 census population data, we select the urban areas from which data on prices are collected and choose the housing units within each area that are eligible for use in the shelter component of the CPI.

> Participation in the Consumer Expenditure Survey is voluntary. However, when you participate, you are representing thousands of other households like yours. In order to be able to create quality statistics, we rely on the participation of those who are randomly selected.

i.e. Volunteer census data from self-reporters.

It is the census, but one step away from outright unreliable information. This doesn't engender confidence.

>

hshdhdhj4444 3 hours ago [-]
> Well, look at the history of removing things like living necessities and increasing things that have dropped in price like TVs.

There are many different measures of inflation. And they serve different purposes.

Core inflation, which I suspect is what you’re talking about when talking about removing “living necessities” is a measure used to try and understand long term stable inflation. Since oil and groceries tend to be extremely volatile, core inflation removes those items. No one is saying it’s the one holy measure of inflation. If you’re trying to understand how prices have changed for the consumer over a period of time it’s not a useful measure at all, so you don’t look at core inflation for that purpose.

You look at other measures.

Also, weights are indeed a complicated issue, but is it really surprising the weight of TVs may have increased over a period of time when owning a TV has gone from being a luxury to a necessity?

But anyways, if you don’t like the weights that are used, the underlying segment breakdown is available on the same webpage that contains the summarized calculated inflation figures. Feel free to look at the segment inflation itself.

hshdhdhj4444 3 hours ago [-]
Here is an article by the St Louis Fed that describes at least 5 inflation measures and what the point of each one is.

https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2024/may/measuring...

Note, for example, only 2 of them even intend to measure price changes for individuals (CPI and PCEPI).

XorNot 3 hours ago [-]
What living necessities have been removed that you think should still be there?

The dataset inclusions are publicly available: https://www.bls.gov/cpi/additional-resources/entry-level-ite...

tootie 1 hours ago [-]
Not really and none of the underlying data is hidden. Inflation can vary across regions and industries and durability. Things like food and energy are in a separate category because they can fluctuate very quickly based on exogenous factors (ie bird flu) outside the control of monetary policy. That doesn't mean policy makers ignore them. They scrutinize the data at every level. CPI, core CPI or PCE are just convenient indicators.
anjel 3 hours ago [-]
https://www.shadowstats.com/ Tl;Dr. The outlook has changed little. ShadowStats numbers show that the economy remains in a deepening downturn, intensified by ongoing Federal Reserve Rate Hikes. Headline inflation faces a near-term rebound, thanks to the continuing and broadly based excessive growth in the Money Supply and Systemic Liquidity, as triggered by the Fed. Separately, with the Debt Ceiling now eliminated by Congress and the Executive Branch, unfettered Federal Deficit Spending increasingly is adding fuel to the unfolding Inflation. The systemic Inflation is not driven by the Fed’s proclaimed overheating economy. Such an economy simply does not exist, at present.
mikeyouse 2 hours ago [-]
Shadow stats is a crank blog with absolutely no validity. Choose your debunking source, but the owner of the blog literally just adds an amount to the official rate that he thinks represents the government error. There’s no calculation, there’s no “pre-1980 methodology”, just one dude’s vibes. If the rate has averaged 9% over the past 25 years, you’d be talking about over 750% inflation since 2000. You can buy any manner of new car today for $35k - could you buy a new car for $5k in 2000? Did a gallon of gas cost $0.40/gallon? Could you rent a modern $1,500 apartment for $200/month?

https://www.fullstackeconomics.com/p/no-the-real-inflation-r...

amanaplanacanal 2 hours ago [-]
If he actually did the work of calculating using the earlier methodology, it could actually be interesting, but it probably wouldn't say what he thinks. But yeah, that site is BS.